Monday, December 11, 2006

finding peace

Nope, I'm not talking about peace in the world, simply peace with myself, peace with karate, and mostly, peace with competing...

Those who can read between the lines can already sense that yesterday's competition didn't go as well as I'd hoped it would. That both Andrew and I dropped our bo is the smallest of things I need to make peace with, the whole competition thing and how the show is sometimes run are more what made me cringe during that day.

First things first, we both dropped our bo, both at the exact same spot in the kata. Not on the throw per say, but just before, when we roll the bo over our right hand. As I said, this is not what bothered me about the day. As they say, shit happens. Both Andrew and I had made many, many successful roll over hand/throw routines that morning before the start of competition, but heh, we dropped it. Shit happens. Pick up your bo, finish your kata and vow to practice and get better for the next competition. Yeah, it's frustrating, but I can get over it. The other things surrounding the competition thing are a bit more irksome.

Let me make something clear, I'm not making excuses, I dropped the bo, nobody else made me drop it. Here's the day's story...

Let's start with how my bo category started. I got called first. Way they always do it is one of the judges will call the first name and the name of the competitor in preparation. So my name is called. I get to the corner of the ring, judges are looking ahead, looking at me actually. I take this as my cue and bow to make my entrance. I have to little entrance, where I walk to the middle of the ring, strike once forward, pivot to my right to face the judge while making a strike again. Both these strikes are accompanied by a kiai. Even though the kata has not started at that point, this entrance is pretty much part of my kata. Well, as I see them looking at me, I bowed, started walking to the middle of the ring, strike/kiai once, pivot and strike/kiai again only to realise that the judges have just decided to huddle up, just as I was about to walk to them, and their are talking among themselves. I can make up what they are talking about, it's about how they should score the different weapons from one to another. Hello, this could have been done before you sat down. This little entrance routine is all part of my "getting in the zone" routine and them throwing me a wrench like that just deflated me. I stood there for a good 2-3 minutes, waiting for a nod or something. When the nod finally came, I had come out of my "zone". Nope, it's definitely not why I dropped the bo, not even close to saying that, but it sure did irk me.

Anyway, I did my kata that one time, dropping the bo not once, but twice, but the second time was me being simply out of it due to the first drop. As you'll see in the video, I considered picking up my bo and not finishing the kata, but I did finish it. Also, if you pay close attention to my bo, amidst all the spinning, you can see that I made a tiny alteration to its look. I added a black tape mark in the exact center of it. That way, I can concentrate on that black spot whenever the bo is spining in the air and I always try to catch that black mark. If you remember, my old bo had a blue taping right in the middle and I would always try to catch it right in the middle of that blue taping mark. I gave that tip to Andrew about a week ago and he came to me before the competition on Sunday morning, telling me that my trick was indeed working. His bo is also very shiny, but has a red taping in the middle. He told me that now, he tries to concentrate on the red mark to catch it and he told me he is more confident with his throws now. Good for you boy, good for you. :)

So here'S my oopsie version of my kata:


What they usually do when there are more than three competitors is that they make the first three go and then give out scores to the first three. That's what they did yesterday. After the third one had done his kata, they huddled up again and one of the judges came to me, telling me that since it was an underbelt category, I was allowed a "do over" but that I would be penalized 0.5 point. With scores usually ranging within one tenth (0.1) of one another (sometimes 9.7 to 9.8, sometimes 9.8 to 9.88 like they ended up being yesterday) that penalty meant that if I elected to do my kata again, it would simply be for myself, i.e. no chance of getting anywhere near the top 4. There was no way I was gonna leave with that drop on my mind so I told him that if they allowed me, yes I would like to do it again. I did it again and this time it went much better. Not perfect but much better. Here's the video of this second time, and this time, all of me is in the frame of the camera. :)


Then came one of the moments where I say I need to find peace, mostly peace with what I do with the bo and why I do it. I do it because I have fun doing it. I know I've come a long way and I do something not many adult in the 30-39 category do, actually not one other adult did an open bo form. What irked me in that case was the scores I received. I know I shouldn't pay attention to scores and should simply be happy that I did my kata right the second time around, but I just can't help it. The three judges gave me scores of 9.84 all accross the board, before deduction. When all was said and done, without the deduction, that would have given me maybe 4th or 5th place. Thing is, I can't see how at least two if not three of the competitor who were ahead of me did end up there. I'm baffled. I know some parts of my kata are sloppy, at least in my eye, but some of the others were plain "unpowerful". I'm talking about traditional bo form without the humph. Sigh, again, this is where I need to tell myself that I do the bo that way because I like doing it that way, not because judges like to see it that way...

But then, some more similar stuff happened, in traditional kata this time. In the category of fellow blogger Sébastien (30-39yo, beginner underbelt), I saw two competitors simply butcher their kata (one the pinan 1, the other the pinan 3) while trying to impress the judges too much. Yelling a kiai at every little strike while blocking without controlling anything and forgetting your stances is not how I'd say is the right way to practice. And I'm not talking about difference between styles, these competitors are people from my style simply learning at another school in the Quebec City area. Again, I need to forget what I saw, what other people are doing, take a step back and think about why I practice. Back to basics, tell myself not to go for the show, not only to impress the judges. I will get back to that, but for now, that showing bothered me a bit.

But then, prior to the start of competition, I had one discussion that now in retrospect bothers me a bit more even. A blue belt in our 30-39yo category, i.e. in the intermediate underbelt category, told me as I asked him what kata he was going to present, that he was going to present a shotokan kata that is supposedly a third dan black belt kata. Turns out one of his friend is a black belt in that style and has showed him the kata. To me, that guy is missing on the essence of learning martial arts. To me, there's a growing that happens through the kata. The first pinan kata we learn is there because it's a basic one, making your work on your pivots and stances and one simple strike. The second pinan has some different things in it, and so does the third pinan and so on, and so on. I never asked one of my instructors to teach me Cat 3 before I knew and has somehow mastered Cat 1 and Cat 2. Again, I shouldn't have let that bother me, but I did. It's *MY* karate and I do it for my own self. Another thing I need to find peace with, that one should be very difficult though. Kepp practicing the way you've always done is what I'm telling myself...

Meanwhile, Andrew's weapon form category happened and as I said, the poor kid dropped his bo, at the exact same spot where I did drop mine. Here's his kata on video:


First thing that struck me as kind of odd from him, other than anything that happened after the drop, is how fast he was going through his kata prior to the drop. He missed at least a couple of kiai that I know should have been there and probably would have given emphasis to some strikes. I wasn't there to watch it, so on video was the first I'd seen of him, but when I talked to him about it later on in the afternoon, he acknowledged that he he was going faster than he wanted to, but didn't know why. My wife took me apart and then told me that just a few minutes prior to him performing his kata, after I'd worked him up to be concentrated and ready to go, my dad, who was there to see him perform, got a bit too happy to see him and started playing with him, tickling him mostly. She said she could see Andrew losing focus right then and there. Sigh, what was wrong in the stars yesterday? Was every little thing meant to tick me off? I mean, Andrew's up to a level where he's started to realize what being nervous is. He's started realizing that things will come to you when you work hard and stay focused, yet my dad just killed that. Sigh... I cannot be there and control my dad, can I? Should I? My wife told me she told Andrew to stay put and focused prior to his traditional kata and she thought she caught my mother staring at my dad for a moment. Maybe he got the hint... I told Andrew I was still very, VERY proud of him and how far he's come since we first started practicing the bo. We will keep on practicing, no more pressure than before, because it's with that kind of mindset that we will grow.

One way I always know if he has improved or not is by watching my wife, his mother, as he warms up. Since I see him every week, I don't always realize to what point he's really improved his bo handling, but when my wife sees him warm up and her eyes open up wide, I know she's suddenly impressed. :)

The kind of cool thing for Andrew was that they were only two entered in the 9yo weapon form category, so even though he dropped his bo, they still gave him second place and a plaque. My wife did film the other kid and after watching his performance carefully, I'd say that Andrew is closing the gap. Where he used to be well behind the other 9yo bo handlers, he is now very, very close to behind among the very good ones. His kata isn't as flashy as some, but he has better, stronger stances now and his strikes are good with good hand placements. I told him that and that is he kept working on it and on controlling his nerves, he could very well end up beating one of the other kid one day.

Then came my traditional kata category. I present Cat 3. I only learned it about a couple weeks ago so that was more a challenge to myself than a challenge to come in the top 4. Eleven competitors were in that 30-39yo advanced underbelt category, an amazing turnout. I didn't come in the top 4, but I think I did well for a first time presenting that kata. Here's the video, I'll comment on it afterward:


I had a couple of "freeze frame" moments, one evident one right at the start of the kata when I go to my left, and I had a big misstep after my second back kick, but otherwise I'm fairly happy with it. Stuff still needs to be worked on, but I didn't expect to be perfect on that day, simply to make it through without one major blank.

But then again, the cherry on top of the sundae, and yeah, I know this is turning into the rant & vent fest of the year, but there was one more moment. During our traditional kata category, maybe 6 or 7 competitors into it, all three of our judges turned around and watched the bo performance of a black belt from the 18-29yo category happening in the ring behind them. I tell ya, it was as if time had stopped in our ring, so much so, that I thought all competitors had performed and they were simply calculating scores, until I saw a fellow competitor standing at the corner of the ring, on the ready, waiting for a nod to enter the ring. I find that unacceptable, disrespectful even. What's the message we should get out of that behaviour? That since we're not black belts, we're nobodies? Sure I'm pushing it and I sound like a whiner, but sheesh, you gotta do as you preach. You learn respect in karate, in martial arts in general actually, then why not show some to the people you commit to. And what could have I done in that situation? Not much, in my opinion at least, as the center judge in my ring was a very high ranked black belt. This is sad that it happened like that, but I wouldn't be as incensed about it if that were not the second time something like that had happened in my ring in two month's time. Yeah, in the competition back in October, again during my age category's traditional segment, all three judges turned to the ring right behind them, this time to watch a fight again in the 18-29yo black belt category. I'll refrain to comment any further, but that was again, just disrespectful. Maybe I'm just seeing too much into it, maybe I'm just being overly sensitive, you tell me. It just left a bad taste in my mouth to be treated like that, and it was the hushed sentiment of many of my fellow competitors standing close to me. Sigh... Again, make peace with it, forget it, practice, and persevere...

Andrew did a good rendition of his Circle of the Tiger, one that he told me he was proud of, that he felt he'd done well. Here's a video of him performing that kata:


I don't see any big flaws to it but sadly, his name was drawn first and in a category with 19-20 competitors, going first can sometimes be a kiss of death. I wasn't there to see the other and maybe my wife is a bit biased but she told me that to her untrained eyes, he could have placed in the top 4 had he come a bit later in the group. She also said that she felt there were many discrepancies in scores from one competitor to the next. Anyway, as I told Andrew, and as I'm telling myself, getting a trophy or a medal was not the only reason we entered that competition. That competition was more for us to find a new way to motivate ourselves to learn our stuff. He agreed with me that he has indeed grown in his practice of karate, same as I have. His kiai are more "attitude" now, like supergroup7 commented about the Christmas show video. Yeah, that was with his bo, but his whole karate demeanor has gone up a couple notches. If only for that, I think we can find peace with competition...

This was a very long post, if you are still reading, thank you very much. Feel free to comment on my bad fortune. :)

If you're not reading anymore, well you won't read this but I don't blame you one bit. :p

FM

19 comments:

Mathieu said...

Les hauts et les bas de la compétitions. C'est le temps de prendre du recul.

Je reviendrai avec un plus long commentaire. Dîner!

Akarien said...

Même réaction pour moi en ce qui concerne dimanche dernier. Je laisse seulement la poussière retomber avant de commenter sur mon propre blog.

Pour te dire à quel point j'étais deçu, la minute où on a mis le pieds dehors je disais a Karina que c'était la dernière ..... bon maintenant tu comprends pourquoi je laisse la poussière retomber avant de trop parler sur mon blog (qui est maintenant lu par plusieurs "anonymes" de mon dojo).

J'ai travaillé fort avant ce dernier dernier tournoi pour finir avec des jugements incompréhensibles, des temps d'attentent inexplicables, des frustrations, trop de monde et en même temps personnes dans ma division "combat".

J'ai donc prit une décision ... toujours en réflexion :
- Une seule compétition par année (Québec Open) jusqu'a minimum ceinture bleu. Mon gros problème c'est qu'a mon niveau je manque de compétiteurs et les gagnants sont ceux qui font n'importe quoi sans bases solides donc j'ai plus d'intérêt a faire la compétition avec eux. Si au moins ils (elles) s'appliqueraient dans leurs positions alors là o.k. leurs intensité ferait en sorte qu'ils me dépassent mais sinon .....

Je me découragement pas pour autant. Anyway, mon but n'était pas de faire de la compétition. Je vais plutot me concentrer sur moi et ce que les arts martiaux m'apportent en dehors des tournois.

Finalement ... le dernier tournois ... vraiment "ordinaire".

A+
Akarien

Benoit said...

I think it is a great experience for you. Competition was strong at this event I think and you did enough well (even better drop their bô sometime). You're lucky to not be against something like 5 4th dan, 6 3rd dan and few 1st dan like me, that put some pressure ;). I think you know life isn't fair and we must deal with that, I hope you had much fun and learn a lot from this event!

Good luck both for next competitions and take care

Mir said...

Yes, I've found time to come visit your weblog, and read.. but it isn't as frequent as I would like. I have to keep my priorities: family, work, karate.. and THEN computer.

This long posting of yours demands a good chunk of my time in respect to all the wonderful statements that you made in it. Thank your wife for capturing your son, and your own performances on video. I truly appreciated her gift to us. I know how difficult it is to truly be present to a moment, and watch it when you are concerned about capturing it on video. I am grateful for her sacrifice.

Let's look at all the things that have unsettled your peace.. and I'll see if I can give you a different set of eyes to look through. I don't know if my perspective will help.. but I'll do my best to be honest, and give you a mirror image to reflect upon. Also.. I'll give you a few questions that may have no foundation in fact, but who knows.. they might generate some different answers.

To start: What if Andrew dropped his Bo because subconsciously he just couldn't let himself do a better performance of the kata than his dad? I could see that Andrew was putting forth all effort in his kata.. but there was a tightness in his body that made the movements more awkward. His mind was on something else, and I don't think that it was your Dad playfighting with him. Actually, I'm wondering if your Dad was trying to help your son relax before going out and performing. As martial artists we know that a good performance demands relaxation. Your Dad choosing that very uptight and tense moment to "playfight" with your son.. to me that sounds like your Dad saw the tenseness, and worry in your son and he was trying to help by lightening the pressure . His message to your son was that it's "just" a tournament.. smile.. relax, enjoy yourself.

Our mental frame of mind affects our kata SO much.. I remember my Sensei purposely pointing out a certain movement to me once. I had been doing the movement totally correctly over and over again, but once he pointed it out to me, I focused on what I was doing. Instantly that movement changed, and I started awkwardly doing it wrong. My Sensei asked me what the difference was between the first performance, and the second one. It was just that little mental shift within me that doubted, and unbalanced me. I was doing it correctly until he just pointed at it. BOOM! Mental focus gone, and the movement fell apart.

Getting in the "zone".. ah yes... that little entrance routine can truly affect the performance of a kata. You know.. I wonder if you could have taken their huddling together as a sign to step out of the ring. Then you could have restarted your kata from the very beginning rather than from the "nod" part. I'd think that if the judges do something unusual like that.. I'd err on the side of being safe, and pull out of the ring. Your reaction to their behaviour.. that "irk" ness.. threw off your mental focus also. Your mind was struggling with that emotion, and trying to calm down and "let go" so that you could perform. I would suggest that you train yourself to the point where they could decide to start dancing a foxtrot in the ring before you perform, and it would make no difference to your kata. What they do, say, or think should be separate from your mental focus... That is YOUR kata that you are doing.. they are just on the sideline watching you.. In your mind, your opponent is before you, beside you, behind you.. and the judges are not part of that. The judges are like stones on the side of the path.

I could see that you just wanted to walk off after you drop the Bo the second time, but that you fought that impulse and finished your kata. Good! Good! 1,000 points for that! That is the kind of life experience that helps form the true karate ka. Your ego was not as important as your will power. You chose to go up there, and perform that kata.. and that is what you did regardless to how good or bad a performance it was. You did not leave it unfinished. THAT's the way to do it!

Scores during tournament: Sigh... yes.. you have come to the reality of tournaments, they are based on a very variable, and unpredictable set of rules. Each judge bases their score on their own expectation of what they are looking for in a performance.. it's subjective. For example, if I ask you to multiply 4 times 5.. there is only one answer that I can accept.. the number 20. Simple.. but if I am judging you doing a reverse punch.. there are so many different variables that I can chose to focus upon: Maybe you have good technique but no power, maybe I'm more focused on your eye vector ( is he looking at his target, beyond his target, totally off target), Maybe I believe that your stance is of most importance with the thought of "what good is a good punch if he has no stance to support it?" Maybe I'm looking at your timing to see if your retracting arm is being useful, or if it's just flopping around... or maybe I am looking at your balance as you punch.. and the list goes on and on.

Subjective scores can be affected by how the judge views you.. Little things like "is he from my dojo?" can affect a judge's choice for score. I'm sorry to say that this happens, but since judges are human.. such things happen. When I am judging a tournament, I fight to be as honest as I can with my scores. I try to see each compeditor as a "stranger", and not as a friend that I've trained with. At times this can get me into trouble because my fellow dojo mates may feel that they will have a better score from me since I'm from their dojo afterall.

Also.. a compeditor's past performances, or belt rank can create a situation where a judge will based their score on what they feel should be handed out rather than on the performance that they just saw happen in front of them. I've been told that it is an extremely rare moment wherein a black belt rank will lose to a kyu level student when placed in the same competition. That kyu level student has to be extra spectacular to be able to wrestle away the medal from a black belt.

This is the real crunch of it.. the placement of where you are at the end of a tournament didn't rely on your skill level at all, but on all those millions of variables that are involved in judging. Medals are nice to win.. gee.. I've got a drawerful of them in my home... but they do not reflect how good you are at karate. In fact, in the end, if they are the only reason that you do martial arts, you will feel empty because once you have won the highest medal there will be no more reason to train. The real benefit to doing tournaments ( in my opinion) is the fact that you go up in front of a whole host of people, where there are distractions aplenty, and you force yourself to relax, focus, and finish what you chose to do ( kata, or kumite)

Comparing ourselves with others will not help improve our skills. What I like to do is watch the performances of others, and assess them for things that I can learn.. if their performance is weak.. what is it that I see in them that makes it weak? How could I make sure that I do not do this in my kata? If their performance is strong.. then I ask the same questions. I look for little nuances in their movements that might open up a whole new aspect to the bunkai of that part. I've had moments where I recognized the flow of that movement, and I said "AHA! Yes! It COULD be used as an arm block if I just shift my arm over in that angle.. COOL!"

As for the person performing a Shotokan kata. My opinion is.. if he hasn't trained for years in Shotokan understanding the philosophy, Bunkai, and attitude then he is just parroting the "dance" aspect of that kata. Just like I can recite a poem in Latin without understanding the majority of the words. I may recognize certain parts of the words.. but not understand the full meaning of them. This is similar.

As you know, I train in two arts Kyokushin, and Shotokan. I can tell you that the Shotokan kata called "Heian Shodan" is extremely familiar to the Kyokushin kata "Pinan Sono Ichi"... You would recognize the block strike pattern instantly as almost exactly the same.. but there is a different flow, power, attitude, movement to each kata. I'll have to make a video of them to show you what I mean. If I wanted to.. I could give my Shotokan "Heian Shodan" kata a Kyokushin accent.. or give my Kyokushin "Pinan sono ichi" a Shotokan accent.
A Kung Fu artist doing "Heian Shodan" would be mimicing a Shotokan kata but using Kung Fu skills, balance, and philosophy... and it would show.

Judges watching other competitions happening:
Sorry.. it happens. Sometimes it isn't fun, or pleasant to be a judge. You sit there for hours in as alert a position as possible focusing on the parade of compeditors in front of you doing your best to be attentive to what is happening in front of you. You balance which performance was strongest with which one was most accurate. You get mentally, and physically tired. I remember my rear end falling asleep so that when we were called into a huddle I had difficulty standing up, and running to the center judge. Yes.. it's disrespectful for the judges to turn and watch a really great performance happening in the ring next door.. but as non-perfect human beings they became distracted. It's not that the lower belts were nobodies.. it's more that the judges were human. They saw something fascinating happening, and were drawn to it. You may find yourself in a similar difficult position when you are a judge in the future.

FrogMan said...

Mat, je sais que tu as vécu des expérience similaires en compétition :) J'attends aussi tes commentaires sur mes kata :)

Akarien, ouais ben, on s'était déjà parlé à la compé. Tu dis que tu es encore en réflexion regardant ta limite de compé, mais j'aimerais quand même t'inviter au Lévisien Open en février. C'est le tournoi organisé par notre Studio. Bien que je n'ose pas prétendre qu'on est mieux que les autres en tout, j'ose croire qu'on respectera les compétiteurs. Au moins l'an dernier, il y avait 5 juges dans tous les rings, même celui des "p'tits vieux" :)

Benoit, for sure it was still an experience worth going through. As you say, even the best drop their bos every once in a while and that's not what bothered me on the day. The whole eerie feeling of the day kind of got to me, maybe I shouldn't have let it get to me like that... I learned one thing though, I practice for myself and my son, not for others...

Take care, Steve

FrogMan said...

Mireille, I'm starting a fresh reply for you :)

Thanks for taking some of your precious time to give me so much food for thought. As always, your comment was well thought out and it allowed me to ask myself some question. I'll quote some of your comment in italic.

To start: What if Andrew dropped his Bo because subconsciously he just couldn't let himself do a better performance of the kata than his dad? I could see that Andrew was putting forth all effort in his kata.. but there was a tightness in his body that made the movements more awkward.

Never thought of that but I doubt it. Only thing I could see in his kata was how fast he did it. I just rewatched it and most of his movements are just as good as I've ever seen him to them, maybe just a bit faster than usual and with a couple of forgotten kiais. Also, his drop happened before mine, even though both our weapon form categories were supposed to start at the same time, so he had no idea that I was bout to drop mine.

Actually, I'm wondering if your Dad was trying to help your son relax before going out and performing. As martial artists we know that a good performance demands relaxation. Your Dad choosing that very uptight and tense moment to "playfight" with your son.. to me that sounds like your Dad saw the tenseness, and worry in your son and he was trying to help by lightening the pressure . His message to your son was that it's "just" a tournament.. smile.. relax, enjoy yourself.

hrm, again, never thought about it that way. Maybe you are right, I just thought that Andrew looked so much more focused when I warmed up with him before the competition than how he can be when my dad starts tickling him.

You know.. I wonder if you could have taken their huddling together as a sign to step out of the ring. Then you could have restarted your kata from the very beginning rather than from the "nod" part.

Yeah, that's probably what I would do if it were to happen to me again. Walk back out, regroup and re-enter the ring. I got completely caught by surprise. I tell ya, I bowed to them and just when I got to start walking toward them, they huddled up. I froze. Now, I know better. I agree that judges are stones on the side of the path and I don't care for them, or anyone around the ring (and you can see that people are standing quite close by) when I perform my kata, but that start kind of threw me off. Maybe it shouldn't have, but what can I say, it did...

Scores during tournament: Sigh... yes.. you have come to the reality of tournaments, they are based on a very variable, and unpredictable set of rules. Each judge bases their score on their own expectation of what they are looking for in a performance..

That I can understand and can live with, but I still have a hard time with the scores they gave regarding some basic forms that had their stances (something that shouldn't be subjective) all wrong. We're not talking a kenpo practitioner versus a chito-ryu one, but two Nick Cerio's Kenpo students, under the same federation but just not from the same school.

Medals are nice to win.. gee.. I've got a drawerful of them in my home... but they do not reflect how good you are at karate. In fact, in the end, if they are the only reason that you do martial arts, you will feel empty because once you have won the highest medal there will be no more reason to train. The real benefit to doing tournaments ( in my opinion) is the fact that you go up in front of a whole host of people, where there are distractions aplenty, and you force yourself to relax, focus, and finish what you chose to do ( kata, or kumite)

I don't think you mean "you" as me in particular because I do NOT compete for medals or trophies. I even commented more about another category than mine. I simply again have a hard time grasping how some very basic things are not judged the same. You did say it though, millions of variables come into account and sometimes that gives a sad result.

My real benefit from that one tournament is the personal challenge I gave myself to learn Cat 3. This kata is now in me forever and I will only make it better with time...

What I like to do is watch the performances of others, and assess them for things that I can learn..

I like that point of view, will try to put it into practice more. Thanks for the idea.

As for the person performing a Shotokan kata. My opinion is.. if he hasn't trained for years in Shotokan understanding the philosophy, Bunkai, and attitude then he is just parroting the "dance" aspect of that kata.

We agree on this 100%. That thing with him didn't bother me so much for me, but more for him, like I felt he was missing on something by simply learning the dance steps. All that because he is competing. I guess he's only hurting himself...

Judges watching other competitions happening:
Sorry.. it happens. Sometimes it isn't fun, or pleasant to be a judge. You sit there for hours in as alert a position as possible focusing on the parade of compeditors in front of you doing your best to be attentive to what is happening in front of you.


Now, I'll have to respectfully disagree with it simply happening. See, I was a hockey referee for 8 years in my youth. At 17, I was going from hockey arena to hockey arena wearing a tie because it was our dress code. In the tournament period (late December to Mid February) I would sometimes officiate in 5 games in a day. That's over 6 hours of skating and being alert all the time, times when my legs hurt, when I was exhausted. Never once have I delayed the start of a period in order to catch the end of the period of another game played on the second rink, never. Sure there were relapse when I would lose my concentration, take a look in the stand in between faceoffs, just like our judge could take a swift look to the other ring in between competitors, but never have I forced the kids I was refereeing to wait after me because I was watching another game. You either do it, i.e. judge or officiate, or you don't. They wanna watch the black belts, or their son or brother Fine, but then they shouldn't volunteer to judge in another ring. I might sound harsh here, but I'm going by the same standard that I have always applied to myself, nothing more. I know they are humans, but I'm human too and if I was able to do it, so should they. I call that commitment. Had it happened only this once, I'd say yeah they got distracted. We're now two for two in two competitions this Fall, that's sad.

Thanks again for this great comment Mireille, I very much appreciated it.

Take care, Steve.

FrogMan said...

oh, and I forgot something regarding them judges watching over to the other ring. When it happened, it had not been hours that they had been judging. The competition started at maybe 9:40 or so and it was no later that 11, so less than 90 minutes since the start of the day. I see what you mean about judging from 9am to maybe 5pm and maybe I could understand them getting tired and needing a break, but I just couldn't see anything other than them lacking respect toward us. Sorry again, I may be harsh, it's just how I felt at the time and how I feel again today.

Take care, Steve.

Mir said...

You are right Steve. All of the comments about medals made to "you" was a generic "you" and not directed towards yourself specifically.

When it comes to judging stance, or such. I can understand your frustration. Let me make you aware of what happens sometimes when we huddle as judges. I once witnessed the worst kata that I've ever seen performed by a karate student. The performer totally eliminated certain parts, and added too many strikes on another part. There was no stance, technique, or focus on any movement. He was totally lost. If there was a medal for totally trashing a kata, I believe that this person would have won it. The judges were called into a huddle. The Center judge said "O.K. we know that he butchered the kata, but we don't want to discourage him from competing in the future. Please consider this as you give him marks." Now.. the justice side of me knew that he deserved a zero... but I weighed what the Center judge had said and I gave the performer about a 6 out of 10. All of the other judges had done the same thing. Guess what... due to the situation of the tournament this extremely poor performance of a kata won the student a bronze medal. Is that what should have happened? I still shake my head at that result.

Yes, Steve.. A referree, or a judge is expected to be "reliable" and commit themselves fully to the action happening in front of them. I know that I make it a point to be the best judge that I can be when I am given that position of authority. As a judge I have missed my daughter's performance in the other ring more than once. Did I wish that I could even have looked over there to see what she was doing? Yes. But I knew that I had to live up to the position that I had accepted as a black belt in my art. I agree that there is a certain expectation that happens from compeditor to judge. I am not saying that what was done by watching the other ring was acceptable. What I'm trying to convey is that one will find moments like these in any amateur sport where there will be people who perform their service inadequately because they are human, and many times will chose the weaker, or more selfish path. What can be done about this? Do we have the power to affect it, or change it? It is difficult enough currently to gather up enough judges to host a tournament. If higher excellence is demanded from the judges.. yes you'd have better tournaments, but you may have far less people willing to volunteer their time to perform this service.

Many martial arts are competition based... The students look forwards to getting the opportunity to compete, and apply themselves towards higher and higher levels of competition. The schools place their awards, trophies, and banners across the entrance of the dojo to show how successful their dojo is. Tournaments are their main motivation. To always have enough well trained, and dedicated judges to fill in a good number of rings can be quite a problem.

It's not "right" for sloppy judging to happen.. it's just reality. If one can accept this reality, enter a tournament for the training environment , and entertainment that it provides, and walk away just as satisfied whether or not they won the gold medal.. ah.. then one can truly glean the most out of those dollars that they spent for those 5-10 minutes of performance.

Mir said...

OH.. by the way.. I don't feel that you are being harsh by your expectations of the judges. I support your high standards, and I'm proud that I also try to live up to those.

I guess that I'm trying to suggest ways to help you find peace within on this issue. In my opinion, there will always be people who do not live up to the roles that they have been given. There are parents who do not raise their children, there are policemen that do not protect, there are librarians that go shopping instead of processing books ( I've witnessed this when I worked in a library), there are students that do not study, there are judges that do not live up to their responsibilities. If I became upset and angry every time that I was serviced by someone who did not take pride in their work.. oh heavens.. I'd have a heart attack. My way of coping with this is to think that I can only choose how I will behave, and by my example perhaps I can encourage others. So, I chose to be the best judge that I can be, the best mom that I can be, the best karate ka that I can be.

FrogMan said...

These are wise words Mireille, probably wiser than any one I could muster. You are probably right that it's not easy to find enough judges to hold those big competitions and holding them to "higher" standards might make it more difficult to have enough of these judges. I still uses the "" around higher because to me (and seemingly to you) being attentive to what you do and not what goes on around, is the way to do it. I refrained to compete a long while simply because I knew it would mean that I'd miss Andrew's side of competition and I know that if/when the day comes for me to be a judge, I will miss some of his competing, but when I'll decide to commit to that, I'll do it 100%. I'm just built that way. Maybe it's wrong of me to expect others to be that way too. Come to think of it, I do remember plenty of bad hockey referees back in the day, heh.

Many martial arts are competition based... The students look forwards to getting the opportunity to compete, and apply themselves towards higher and higher levels of competition. The schools place their awards, trophies, and banners across the entrance of the dojo to show how successful their dojo is. Tournaments are their main motivation. To always have enough well trained, and dedicated judges to fill in a good number of rings can be quite a problem.

I guess you put the finger on one of the things that bothers me. I don't particularly care about medals, as I train for my own self, but still I'm competitive by nature, to some point we all are. To see one trash a kata, as you point it, and come out first or second because they simply screamed louder is a bit disconcerting at first. That's why I said I need to find peace. I know I will, but I need some time for it. I'm already feeling much better about it, thanks in part to you. :)

Take care, Steve.

FrogMan said...

OH.. by the way.. I don't feel that you are being harsh by your expectations of the judges. I support your high standards, and I'm proud that I also try to live up to those.

I guess that I'm trying to suggest ways to help you find peace within on this issue. In my opinion, there will always be people who do not live up to the roles that they have been given. There are parents who do not raise their children, there are policemen that do not protect, there are librarians that go shopping instead of processing books ( I've witnessed this when I worked in a library), there are students that do not study, there are judges that do not live up to their responsibilities. If I became upset and angry every time that I was serviced by someone who did not take pride in their work.. oh heavens.. I'd have a heart attack. My way of coping with this is to think that I can only choose how I will behave, and by my example perhaps I can encourage others. So, I chose to be the best judge that I can be, the best mom that I can be, the best karate ka that I can be.



You posted this just as I was typing my response and again, maybe you are right. Maybe I take everything too seriously. I younger than you are, thus maybe not as wise ;) But I'm sure you will agree that when you put this much passion in something, in this case training to perform a kata, it's very sad when something like what happened happens. I guess the "live and let live" motto should apply to those situations...

Take care, Steve

Anonymous said...

Having been a competitor for years and years, and having many national titles under my belt for Forms (traditional, weapons, Musical) and Fighting the only thing I can say is to remember a tenant that I was taught coming up.

"Forget the mistakes of the past and press on to greater achievements in the future."

I need this a lot myself, as to compete at an Elite level especially in Divisions such as Extreme and Musical, you end up in the "high risk - high reward" mode of operating. Your moves, weapons releases, flips and tricks, well they get more complex, faster and it always seems like the envelope is pushed just a little bit farther and each event, especially when the competition is fierce and regular. Often I am at two a month, with many of the same guys, each pushing us a little harder.

The short of this is a combination of the high risk and high reward tenant, mixed with the ole "stuff happens" will sometimes result in weapon drops and that usually for black belts results in immediate disqualification. That said, despite having dropped multiple times last year, I still was able to come back and hang in to secure a title. The key is to let it go, use it to push yourself harder and keep pushing onward.

The best thing you can do is have a positive attitude and push forward, it is ok to drop, make a mistake, as long as you learn and move forward. Have this attitude share it with Andrew and focus on pushing forward, figure out what could have caused the drop and then move on.

What results in most of my drops (besides throwing around sharp objects) tends to be failure to compensate for the extra adrenaline I have when I hit the competition floor, it is the same thing that causes me to overrotate throwing trick moves like a 540 and such.

So the drop, learn from it if there is anything to indeed learn from it, then push on. Both you and Andrew looked sharped, the techniques flowed with the staff fairly well.

As for the traditional form, Andrew looked pretty good, while of course we do not see the other competitors, I would guess your assumption that he didn't score as high as some of the others because he was the first among 20 would be fairly accurate. It tends to happen that way, running the first three then scoring is only an attempt to minimize this of course. If that tends to be the case, there is nothing you can do about starting position, unless there is seeding, so I would not fret over that. I have seen world champions do the best form in their division, only to lose because they went first. Watching the Video tape of the division afterwards has confirmed this time and time again.

Anyway, you guys look like you are on the right track. Just keep training and don't let the drops bother you. More practice, more competition time and they will become few and far between.

Jamie

MrX said...

My wife use to be in figure skating. She was competing at a province level.

She told me that what you explain is basically what could happen in a figure skating competition.

I think it has always been the problem with these type of tournaments (figure skating, diving, synchronize swimming, gymnastics, martial arts). The worst part is trying to explain it to our kids.

Makes me think twice about competing... I think Mireille did a good job in pointing out the facts about thes types of events. The question now is will you continue to compete knowing that this kind of situation will surely repeat itself?

You did your best! In my book, that is what counts!

Take care,

Marc

FrogMan said...

two more very interesting replies that I feel a need to comment on.

First Jamie, first time I think I see you commenting around here, welcome aboard and thanks for your very informative comment. It's also funny you talk about the risk/reward aspect of thing because I was talking with my wife about this on Sunday morning, just as we were walking out of the competition. She made a passing comment about if one thing was too hard in the kata, maybe we should change it. I didn't need to tell her much, simply said "it's a risk/reward thing honey" and she agreed. That's exactly what it is. At our level, this spin around hand and throw routine is a risky move, we let go of the bo, yet, I have to guess that when we'll get it right, as I often times do in practice, or even better, right and fast, as I sometimes do in practice, it's an impressive move, again at our level, maybe not yours. ;)

I have pumped that attitude of "hey we'll work on it a bit more and next time we'll do better" into Andrew and I think he is getting it. I'm finding that all those videos we have of him in his first ever competition, up until the xmas show and even of that last competition, well they are my best allies in showing him how much he's grown and how much potential he has if he keeps working on it. We're not about to let go, don't worry. :)

And about Andrew being drawn first, as you said, not much can be done about it. I've always been happy if I have felt that he did a good kata. And if I see little things he can work on, I try pointing them out to him. He once was the little rebel, feeling like his dad didn't know what he was talking about and he would argue about almost everything I'd tell him. This has changed, I can see that. Maybe it's the fact I'm getting closer to the black belt that's giving me some credence, but he is acknowledging these little flaws I point to him now. I love my son. :)

Finally, thanks for the nice comments about our staff techniques. Very much appreciated.

Marc, I know what you mean about scores. The little discrepancies are not always what get to me, it's more like the big difference I saw in the kata, from school to school. Not even from say, our group of schools to your group of schools. I could see differences between the way your being thaught the pinan katas and the way we are being thaught them, even though we're both supposed to be learning NCK, but more like two schools from the Studios Unis federation.

I will most certainly keep on competing, at least until I get my black belt. I know I would probably get blown out of the water in a black belt division, so I'd need a few years as a black belt to even take a shot with the big boys. :) As I said, I need to go back to doing it for myself and for/with my son. I get great fun out of that... :)

Take care, Steve.

Mathieu said...

I always love Mireille's comments. They always make sense.

Good points she has. I admit to thinking the same. Here's a great big hug to Mireille!

Pour la compétition, en mai passé, on est arrivé a 8h du matin et parti a 20h. Interminable. En plus, en combat, j'ai atteint la cible d'un coup de pied 2 fois sans points. Tu te demandes : yé ou le problème? Je dois lui défoncer le crane pour que ça compte?

Depuis ce petit incident, j'ai fait un deuil de ça. Ça arrive, ce sont des humains et parfois, ça fait juste chier. Faut être prêt à l'accepter en entrant dans la compétition. Tu acceptes que c'est partial. Les compétitions ne sont pas une fin en soi, seulement un petit pas vers autre chose. Mais ça, je sais que tu le sais... Et pour cette raison, je ne commenterai pas plus longtemps sur la compétition, la façon dont c'est fait ou autre. À chaque personne d'en tirer son lot. Et pour le moment, je suis à cheval entre plusieurs positions. :-)

Mais, je comprend. ça fait chier.

Portion kata!

Parce que j'aime les critiques constructives.

Kata de Bo. Encore une fois, je ne me prononce pas. je ne les connais pas assez, ni ce qui devrait y être. La deuxième rendition est plus solide, évidemment. Toujours un peu penché vers l'avant, mais c'est moins prononcé. Sensei Higashi (le directeur canadien) nous dit toujours de regarder au loin devant nous pour éviter ça. Mais on n'a pas un bo dans les mains... Je me rapelle Sensei qui me fait arrêter en plein milieu des katas pour me faire vérifier si j'ai un poing un pouce de distance entre mes pieds, si je suis droit, si je contracte les abdos et fessiers. Ça marche pour moi...


Cat3
J'y vais et si jamais c'est fatiguant, frappe moi par email (slaps around with a big trout - IRC).

- C'est évident qu'il manque de pratique Toutefois, il y a des points qui sont communs à pas mal tous les katas.
- le fait de freezer a peut-etre tout fait foirer aussi..
- Coups de poings rapidements succédés : ils devraient être au même endroit, ou presque.(sec 15-16 sur le vidéo) on voit un coup de poing gauche correct et un droit off-target.
- le dos, le dos, le dos. Contracte les fesses. Tu connais l'expression un baton dans le cul? Il faut faire comme si tu voulais pas qu'il tombe. règler ça va grandement améliorer le reste.
-(sec 18-19) coup de pied, quand on tombe, faut etre solide. le fait d'être penché vers l'avant fait en sorte que tu arrives trop vite et freiner est plus difficile. (décentré)

Le type qui a commencé en meme temps que moi fait la meme chose. Il penche vers l'avant. Dans les katas ou on fait des transitions rapides, il est décentré et déconnecté du sol --> ses frappes ne sont pas convaincantes et un coup de vent le ferait tomber. Depuis qu'il a corrigé ça, ces katas sont mieux et en combat, il mange moins de coup en pleine poire de ma part. :) Ce qui l'a fait cliquer, c'était juste de monter le menton. Il baissait le menton, comme pour foncer.


- un autre ti-dernier commentaire constructif: à la seconde 29, je ne sais pas pourquoi, mais tu hausse les épaules pour frapper.(main gauche, jambe gauche en avant) C'est un peu biz, parce que tu ne le fais nulle part ailleurs. Alors ce coup de poing semble sorti de nulle part. Tous les autres sont relax aux épaules. biz.



+ J'aime bien les tansitions. ça va bien et c'est naturel. (i.e. - tu bouges pas comme un robot)
+ (sec 57) regarde, tout de suite apres le coup de pied, tu es droit. et ton coup de poing est solide. bang bang, BANG. J'adore. Lui, il fait peur. On voit qu'il rentre au poste! Tu suite apres, tu baisse encore la tete, par contre.

+J'aime bien les blocs, ils sont relax, mais contractés.
+Les positions des pieds sont bonnes. Toujours en bonne distance et constant.On dirait qu'il y a une équerre par terre! C'est facile a voir sur le vidéo a cause des lignes par terre. Je suis incapable de faire ça, moi.
+ Bon mouvements de hanche!(je suis pas gai) quand les coups se succèdent, ça bouge et ça enchaîne. c'est convaincant.

Pour la tête qui penche, la différence la plus marquante est surement au début, tu es droit droit droit. pis apres ton coup de pied arrière (ushiro-geri), ta tete tombe vers le bas et ton corps penche. ça te suit tout le long du kata. CHIN UP DUDE! Les japonais, c'était du monde fier. pas de tete en bas :)

cibolle que je suis difficile. Tu comprends maintenant pourquoi ma blonde ne veux plus s'entraîner avec moi LOLOLOL

Portez vous bien toi et ta tite-famille!

Mathieu said...

J'oubliais de dire :

Andrew est en feu! Quel amélioration, quand meme par rapport a des vidéos précédents!

prochaine!

Mat

FrogMan said...

Mat, t'es pas difficile, t'es seulement un gars qui as le souci du détail et tu es un bon observateur. Je suis capable d'apprécier ça :)

Tous d'excellents points et plein de choses à me rappeler lors des prochaines pratiques. Certaines de ces choses vont s'en aller à mesure que je maitriserai le kata un peu plus. Le regard au sol est souvent dû au fait que je me concentre sur ce qui s'en vient. Par contre, certaines autres choses sont simplement de mauvaises bases que je devrai améliorer, comme quand mon corps au complet penche vers l'avant.

Merci encore pour tes commentaires!

À la prochaine, Steve.

Benoit said...

Quelques petits détails constructifs également dans ton cat 3:
- Quand est-ce que l'on regarde à terre dans le kata d'après toi? La réponse, aussi surprenante qu'elle puisse être, est jamais! Même pas au ballayage à terre. À ce moment, l'on devrait regarder à notre droite où est-ce que le prochain ennemie s'en vient. L'on doit toujours regarder droit devant nous, et ca aide à garder le dos droit comme disait mat.

- Attention à ta garde. Lorsque les poings ne sont pas dans les côtes, ils doivent être à une hauteur raisonable pour protéger la tête et le plexus (particulièrement au début lors du coup de pieds arrière, la perte de l'équilibre peut faire baisser la garde parfois).

Il est solide pour le temps que le pratique, continue de pauffiner tous les petits détails et bonne chance.

FrogMan said...

ah là Benoit tu parles! Je vois le futur professeur se pointer en toi. :)

De très bons points sur le kata, points que je garderai en mémoire lors de mes prochaines pratiques. Merci beaucoup!

À la prochaine, Steve.